Tuition rates for yeshiva day schools in the Baltimore area continue to rise. Â Bais Yaakov, TA and Yeshivat Rambam all increased tuition for the coming school year. Â Below is a chart with the new tuition rates for the three schools for the coming academic year.
Update: we’re updating the spreadsheet to make it more accurate. We’ll re-post it when it’s complete.
{ 52 comments… read them below or add one }
Greg – Thank you for preparing this. I had done the same when considering our options for 09-10.
Perhaps you can add registration fees to your spreadsheet? I believe that YR charges them while BY doesn’t. I don’t recall whether TA has a registration fee or whether they require funds in advance that will be deducted from one’s overall tuition.
MJBHA:
http://www.mjbha.org/Admissions/Schedule_of_Fees/Schedule_of_Fees.cfm
YGW:
http://www.yeshiva.edu/HOME/DocumentsandForms/tabid/64/Default.aspx
I’m looking forward to having kids and being poor!
DMZ: thanks! I’m updating the spreadsheet with HA and YGW, as well as Beth Tfiloh, which has information on their website.
Worst economy since the 1930’s -perfect time for tutiton hikes. This is unsustainable.
Jewboy: it’s been unsustainable for about a decade now. Real wages have remained stagnant, but tuition rises like everyone’s getting raises right and left. I’ve always wondered what would happen to the schools if we had a serious downturn, and I guess I’m going to find out. At some point, I suspect the people who are actually paying full tuition (or close to it) will revolt and demand change.
High tuition also have negative effects on the other parts of the community – every dollar of tuition you pay is a dollar less of tzedakah that some other charity can get. Not to mention the obvious fact that it causes some parents to send their kids to public school.
This is my opinion and facts AFAIK, this is a sensitive topic, near and dear to my heart, but let’s keep the comments mature as they have been so far.
Tuition is a very difficult burden on many families, however I have yet to hear a true alternative. There is very little fat left to be trimmed on the budgets. Teachers are not paid well and to my knowledge, most local schools are not giving raises to their teachers. The government numbers I have seen estimates the national average cost per student in public school to be between $9,500 and $12,000.
See:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/National_average_cost_per_student_in_public_school (saying national average is $9,866)
http://www2.ccboe.com/PDF/Proposed_Budget_FY2010.pdf (saying average in Charles County, Maryland is $11,938 , although $950 is bussing costs)
I do not believe these numbers include land acquisition costs, which is an additional cost private schools.
Even if everyone paid full tuition without fundraising the cost per child would stay the same.
The only solution i see is government intervention. The government could give $3,000 -$4,000 vouchers and realize a significant savings if public school children went to private school using them ($5,000 – $9,000 savings per kid). The issue is if no children left public school to attend private school it is a significant expense.
Thank you Greg for the spread sheet, can we get TI on there as well?
Wow. Good job putting this all together. Sure is depressing. I guess I’ll start eating only tuna and spaghetti from now on.
Opinions: what is being done within the community to lobby local governments?
If you have data on TI, please send to me (greg AT baltimorejewish DOT com), and I’ll add it in.
Greg,
The Rambam column does not calculate costs correctly. There should be no building fund or any other surcharge (aside from registration) for Nursery.
Also, can you put this spreadsheet up on Google Docs?
Thanks.
DMZ: I agree it is unsustainable and has been for a long time, but have we seen large numbers of jewish kids in public schools in Baltimore? The city schools are not really an option, so the jewish schools struggle on.
Greg: Thanks the spreadsheet is great.
Locally the jewish schools have teamed up with the Maryland Catholic Conference and a few others (The Maryland Nonpublic Schools Legislative Coalition). Thanks in large part to the Coalition during the 2008 session of the Maryland General Assembly in increasing funding for the Nonpublic Schools Textbook/Technology program to $4.4 million ($800,000 more then last year) for school year 2010-11. This is the most we have gotten since 2001 the first year this funding was passed.
The Coalition also hosted the third annual Legislative Reception in Annapolis, at which students and other school representatives visited with their legislators, and joined them for a lunch reception in the Miller Senate Office Building.
There is also a great tax credit bill called “BOAST” that was introduced. Businesses that donate to nonprofits that give scholarships or run enrichment programs would get 75 percent of the contribution back through tax credits, up to a certain amount. Due to the financial climate it was not able to be passed. It has a broad support in the legislature and I have spoken to lobbyists who are pushing for it.
FYI……I just saw a statisitic that cost of public education in Maryalnd was $11,556 per student in 2006-07.
Warren: I’ll see if I can fix the Rambam Nursery issue; it’s kind of difficult to work with things on that specific of a level.
I tried to use Google Docs, but there is no way to lock individual cells, and if one person is using the spreadsheet, their changes show up on other folks version. So if two people were viewing it at the same time, they would crash. Really stupid, I’m amazed that Google Docs can’t do something like this. I looked at a bunch of options, and uploading an Excel file was the only one that worked. So sad.
I do have a copy up on Google Docs, if you’d like to take a look, email me.
It’s worth noting that the $11.5k figure is generally including special ed, huge administrative hierarchies, and unionized teachers – expensive things that the day schools listed aren’t doing. Jewish schools go for a little longer, certainly, but that doesn’t even begin to compare to those kind of costs.
I wonder if larger class sizes could help? *shrugs*
DMZ, I do not know how those costs compare to real estate costs (which public schools do not have). There are also significant costs involved with the religious component of the education that public schools do not have. Larger classes would help reduce costs but also detract from the quality of the education provided.
Public education figures include so much more than a basic education. One of the biggest expenses is special education services. Services are also provided to private school students. Busing was already mentioned as being included in that average cost per student. No one has mentioned the costs of maintaining a comprehensive sports program including paid coaches, insurance, equipment, uniform, and (yes) more busing. Sports aren’t the only extracurricular activities or electives offered. How many of our schools own hundreds of pricy music instruments? How many of our schools have auto shops, woodworking shops, metal shops, photo labs, etc? What about the costs of maintaining a full chemistry lab and physics lab? What about printing a newspaper? Public school teachers also have a competitive benefit package, to say nothing of pay (we are regularly informed that yeshiva teachers are underpaid). Schools districts also run summer school programs and night school programs, including busing. And, of course, there are schools that also offer day care. And, of course, government knows how to spend plenty of money.
I just don’t see how “we” can continue to pat ourselves on the back and say, “well, public schools don’t offer a dual curriculum.” Look what they do offer: summer school, night school, a comprehensive sports program, special education, transportation, and more.
I completely agree with you, Orthonomics: dual-curriculum doesn’t even come close to explaining the price differential. It’s even worse when you consider that we’re just talking about tuition: there’s a huge fund-raising component involved, too.
And, as for SK: yes, there are tons of Jewish kids in Baltimore public and secular private schools. I met tons of them in NCSY.
I realize that homeschooling is not a good option for all, but since readers might be interested in the first ever Torah Homeschooling conference on June 28.
http://jewishhomeschooling.wordpress.com/
Just thought I would put in a word for it since it sounds very interesting.
From a YR board member: Please note that although the average cost of public education in Maryalnd was $11,556 per student in 2006-07, it costs far more to provide a dual curriculum that is strong in both Judaic and Secular studies. Although the tuition charged does not fully cover the actual costs to fully educate a YR student, we are committed to our current and prospective YR families. We want to underscore that NO ONE will be denied an education at YR for financial reasons. We will do what is necessary to help our families in these tough economic times.
I would like to personally thank our wonderful teachers, staff and all our generous supporters who keep our school strong and growing. We look forward to seeing all our YR families in the fall.
Have a wonderful summer!
How can such guarantees be made, at least for the long term?
wow, i am getting a bargain at TA and BY, relative to BT.
the parents that pay full, will continue to pay full – even though its a few hundred dollars more and the parents that cant, still wont and will pay what they can.
tuition raises makes sense to me (maybe they can give the teachers a little raise too!)
Thanks for putting this together. Your spreadsheet is very helpful. I echo Avigail Rosemore’s remarks. We are committed to Jewish education and will do what is necessary to help our parents through these challenging times!
Can you add NIRC fees for Highschool. basically it is 15K per child.
Bankman,
“tuition raises makes sense to me (maybe they can give the teachers a little raise too!)”
Why does this make sense to you? How long do you think schools can solve their problems merely by raising tuition, especially when the parents who still have jobs aren’t getting raises?
Every time they do so, more and more parents fall off the rolls of parents-who-can-pay-full to become parents-who-can’t. This “breaks” these parents; they get turned off and feel like the school is making it impossible for them do keep doing what they want to do. Those remaining parents who can pay full tuition (30%?) feel more and more like they are carrying the entire load by themselves and once their kids are out of school they won’t contribute another penny. It’s a lose-lose proposition.
Attempting to solve the financial crisis by simply raising tuition every year is unsustainable and the system is collapsing like a house of cards.
crisis, problems, “breaks” the parents, parents turned off, carrying the entire load,
drama – drama – drama
bottom line is that the school has a budget, they must meet these obligations year in and year out. you critisize, but offer no solution.
the few hundred dollar increase, in my view, does not push any (or at most- a few) parents into the tuition reduction category. i’m sure there are a few examples, but the majority do not. the parents that pay full DO carry the load, they know this, we know this – that is the result of a community that is (K”H) full of children and frankly, not full of that much money. in addition, the folks that have the most kids, are the rebbeim, teachers, kollel guys, what have you – the ones that cant pay. this will continue – at least through my looking glass, and again, not sure what you are offering up as a solution to that imbalance – but most people recognize, this is how its gonna be – for better or for worse.
“drama – drama – drama”
Every budget has its breaking point and every time tuition is raised there are parents who are no longer able to pay full tuition. If you truly are a “bankman” you should understand that. I can tell you that the parents who continue to pay full tuition are getting very upset and their relationship with their kids’ schools suffers as a result. I agree, they are quite aware of all the people who can’t pay but they are also starting to feel like suckers.
No, I don’t have a solution but what I can’t understand is why you are so flippant about it. With that kind of attitude, I hope to G-d you are not on the Board of a local school. If you are, think about resigning. Immediately.
“i dont have a solution” – thanks for contributing to the conversation, then! i’ll add you to the “kvetcher” category (at least you arent alone, trust me)
flippant? or practical?
hey phil, are teachers underpaid or overpaid? do you think teachers should get raises? can 90% of the parents that are paying full tuition (upset or not) pay a little more? lets talk practicalities, shall we?
So let’s talk practicalities: if a family is bringing in $100K before taxes (not a bad salary for Baltimore) and they have 4 kids in school, their tuition bill after taxes is already approaching $40K. That’s astounding! One thing teachers don’t have to worry about nearly to the same extent is tuition. Yes, they are underpaid but unfortunately schools really can’t afford any more. What parents are being asked to do is already super-human; they’re not just upset, they simply can’t do any more.
It’s a very complex communal problem and no, I don’t have a solution. So your magic answer is that parents should keep paying? What ivory tower do you live in that allows you to pretend we can keep this up? You think full-tuition paying parents are a bunch of kvetchers and drama-queens that can always keep paying “a little moreâ€? Get out there and talk to them! If you think the schools can keep squeezing them for more and more, then you’re the one who’s being impractical. The percentage of parents who can afford full tuition shrinks every year.
Here are some practical ideas to consider:
- Should people who otherwise wouldn’t consider college, go to earn more?
- Should men leave Kollel to start earning money before their kids begin school?
- Should people be looking for more lucrative positions that are more demanding?
- Should more wives work outside the home?
One thing this town certainly needs is more creative fundraising! Now let’s hear some practical ideas from you, besides “the parents can always pay more”.
Phil, now were talkin!
But to be honest, your solutions and ideas are at the root of the problem. We all send a lot of kids to yeshivas and seminaries, etc that encourage a life of learning (and unfortunately) poverty. I think you are onto something when you discuss a change in attitude as it relates to college, working etc, but that is a long term issue. Right now, in 2010, these schools need money – and I do feel that this is what’s been done for (literally) hundreds of years. The g’virim with the loot build the shuls, support the schools and pay the teachers. That’s the way it is – and I think I disagree with you that is some kind of giant ponzi scheme that will come crashing down one day.
Good response, by the way
Bankman,
I think we may actually agree more than we disagree. The problem in Baltimore is that the definition of a gvir is anyone that can pay full tuition. In other communities they have real gvirim but here it all comes down to the dwindling number of parents who can pay somewhat more than the rest. I don’t see this as being a long-term solution.
Thanks!
I would venture to say that the majority of students in Baltimore public schools are NOT there because of tuition, but rather, because of issues with special needs in which the schools weren’t meeting their needs. I don’t know of any frum family that would send their kids to public school for financial reasons. If tuition help from the school is not enough, they would , most likely, homeschool – not that tuition alone is a good reason to make that committment.
As far as services for special needs in the day schools, they are very limited. So for that reason, public school is sometimes the very tough choice parents need to make.
After reading the posts for Phil and Bankman let me throw my two cents in. I am by no strech of the imagination a gvir. I struggle paycheck to paycheck and have to pay certain bills by credit card when I do not have enough in my bank to pay. My wife and I made a desicion that we will pay full for as long as we can. I work and my wife works in order to allow us to pay full tuition. Every increase hurts us. I used to say I happily pay but after seeing the attitude of many parents who get breaks but the lifestyle they lead does not change I do feel like a sucker. We need to truly evaluate what someone can pay and what they cannot. Is it right to pay for summer sleep away clamp when you are getting a break, is it fair for parents to go to Isreal while they do not pay a full share. This is happening today. Is it great that families have 5,6,7,8 children, Yes. Is it great that I am paying the tuition for these children, no. Complex questions that needs to be addressed. Someone mentioned Fundraising. After reading TA’s letter and the budget the “FUNDRAISING DEPT” has I just laughed. What, if anything is this dept doing? Make is public. We have a right to know. I hve my serious doubts. This is a rant concerning tuition so I will not get into the quality that we are paying top dollar for. I looked at other cities and compared tuition and yo would be shocked as to how much more we pay compared to other cities, especially if you take salaries into consideration. Again i have no real answers but the boards and commitees, and the das torah has to start asking the questions. I will not get into the LONG TERM Solutions brought up but I would love for the higher ups start realizing that the mesorah money will eventually dry up and in the next generation or the next the money will be gone. This was my littel rant for the day.
The tution in Baltimore County Public Schools (and we know what that includes based on previouse comments) is $6000 a year. (Call Summit Park Elementary and ask)
If you are making 100,000+ and have expenses (medical or otherwise) you can jump on your head until your blue you are not getting a tuition break no matter what… The wont even consider the fact that the wife/mother is working and so she needs more assistance (i.e. expenses) at home.
On a side note- Bais Yaakov and Bnos Yisroel teachers get a 50% reduction in tuition when working a minimum of 12-15 (not sure the exact amount) of hours- no matter what their financial situation is.
I agree with Larry! I think many parents know they are paying for other people’s kids and DO feel like suckers. What would happen if 50 parents who pay full tuition get together and tell their school, “We will pay in full based on LAST year’s tuition. We reject your increase as unfair and will not pay it”? The school wouldn’t dare close the doors on these kids because how many full paying parents do they have?
That’s all it will take for the system’s flaws to be exposed and everything will come crashing down!
Larry,
Kudos on your rant. I totally agree—you have inspired me. It would be one thing for us full tuition payers to subsidize tuition for those getting breaks if we were confident that those getting breaks were doing everything possible to pay more tuition. Tzedaka is honorable, isn’t it? But when those getting tuition breaks have a welfare attitude to the extent that getting a tuition break is no longer a stigma, it is very painful to subsidize them. I was speaking with an individual who was surprised I didn’t get my tuition reduction paperwork yet. When I indicated that we pay full tuition, I was informed that “everybody gets breaks… that’s the way it works.” Look at what we (society – not the schools) have created–a self destructing system that is forced to rely on tuition increases from an ever shrinking full paying tuition body.
So what to do? Hoping for vouchers is for people who are, with all due respect, too timid to confront the real problem. When vouchers come, that will be great. But that’s not happening anytime soon, especially in this economic climate. The real problem is one of priorities. In an ideal world, the community rabbis would make a concerted and long term effort to inform the apparently ignorant folk that paying tuition (s’char limud) is a mitzvah d’oraysah of v’limadetem osum es b’naichem–no different than shabbos, tzitzis, succah, etc. Those of us who do not homeschool are mekayem this mitzvah by paying tuition, which essentially makes the Rebbe our shliach to teach our children. When one gets a tuition reduction, the shlichus, and ergo, the mitzvah, is deficient. The same people who gladly apply for and take tuition reductions spend significant amounts of time and money performing the “sexy†mitzvos b’hidurah. But this mitzvah is no different. Hopefully, with sufficient education, people will realize that getting a tuition reduction is a worst case scenario for which they will have to pay in the olam ha’emes, and take their tuition obligations more seriously. Which means, approaching the parents and grandparents who are paying for the additions, new cars, trips to Israel, summer camps, lavish bar/bat mitzvas, etc. and getting them to reallocate their funds towards tuition. And at the very least, someone who is getting a tuition break should not flaunt it or live a lifestyle inconsistent with the fact that they are getting tzedakah from people who don’t want to give it (which is probably g’naiva, but that is another issue for another time). This way, those of us who are paying full tuition don’t have to endure additional pain when we see you doing things that we cannot afford to do because we are paying our hard earned money to our schools.
I am a YR parent I feel like I don’t have another good school option for me. BY would never take my girls based on the fact my wife wears pants, and BT doesn’t seem like the kind of jewish education I want for my kids. There are many like me and Barry knows people will have to pony up. I went to TA growing up and I would never send my kids there.
How can the discussion about mass families deciding on using the public system become more of a reality?
Chosen,
There are BY mothers who wear pants, just not while driving carpool. Regarding a mass migration to public school, forget it, it’s just not going to happen. It’s not the 50’s anymore and no matter how difficult finances are the community knows that sending our kids there stacks the deck against their remaining religious. Walk into a public school and look around if this isn’t obvious to you; or just watch as school lets out for the day. You will not be able to counter at home the negative influences they pick up in public school.
Lisa,
As long as you are fully prepared to take your child to an alternative school, try it. That is likely what will happen as your idea will help close your school likely.
My parents in a past generation refused to pay the “extremely high” tuition. They wanted to know more in their generation too. None of this is new just more intense.
Yes it is very hard. The cycle continues. No school can have parents run it fully. Transparency is a needed thing for the donors 100%. Transparency is fine up to a finite point with parents. Boards that are made up primarily with parents and few outside stakeholders are in big trouble. Parents care about their personal vested interest (their own children, their pet issues, etc) first and foremost. Boards must be made up of people who make decisions for the betterment of the entire entity first and foremost. It takes very special parents who can put their child’s best interest second to the best interest of the entire entity. I have found very few who can and that is the biggest problem all these schools have.
Loading boards with stakeholders who put the entire entity first and foremost would shake up all the schools for the positive both in quality and fiscal responsibility. Good luck making that happen.
Your frustrations are real but the best you can do is lobby within your school’s structure or sell your school short and shop on price until schools leave the scene. Reality check………….
I know that BY is looking very closely at transfers from YR. You need to be much more “shtark”than I could ever pull off at an interview. I’m sure there are much fewer spaces than applicants right now.
What about a system like in Lakewood where the tuition is set at something in the 3-6K range per year per student and you pay it or you don’t go. No scholarships, no assistance, no exceptions.
Figure out how much the school needs (minus expected donations) and divide it by the amount of students.
The model has worked elsewhere, why not here?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to close down my kids’ school. I simply want them to realize that the fundraisers must get more creative and work much harder – like as hard as the parents are working! It’s been too easy for the leadership to keep increasing the burden on the parents year after year and they have to get the message that it can’t go on this way!
Sounds great, ABC. How much is room and board? I could stand a couple super-yeshivish kids if it saved me $20k a year.
But, seriously, without mass revolt by the full-tuition paying parents, it’s just not going to happen. The best I think we can hope for is forcing the schools to actually stop giving tuition _reduction_ and start giving _scholarships_. If they did that, all the money over what’s needed to educate my (theoretical) kids would be tax deductible, which would seriously help the sting.
Of course, I think that the receiving families would be on the hook for paying taxes on some of the money they receive (for the religious education bits, since they’re not part of a real degree, I suspect), but you know what? Too bad for them, they’re already taking my money. That’s a terrible attitude, I know, but it’s the truth.
DMZ,
The schools will never agree to the “scholarship” approach because if full-payers found out the most heavily guarded secret in town, that is, how much of their tuition bill was going to educate other people’s kids, they would revolt immediately!
Well, another thing I keep harping on is transparency. There’s a need to protect people, certainly. but the schools just abuse that beyond all belief. I should know, at a glance, how much of my tuition is being spent on my kids and how much is being spent on others kids. It’s not exactly difficult math, and it’s certainly not going to compromise other people’s privacy.
DMZ, according to the Y.Rambam literature, at least, full tuition does not even cover the cost of educating your own child.
A few thoughts as a teacher at a Jewish Day School.
1. Perusing these comments, I noticed that someone inferred that teachers don’t have to worry about tuition (I’m guessing the assumption is that they all receive significant or full tuition breaks). Allow me to dispel this notion. It is only the rabbonim at the “frum” schools who get a significant break on tuition.
2. I did not see the Hebrew Charter school idea discussed (perhaps I missed it). Even without it, I see no reason why we can’t send our kids to Public School and then supplement their Hebrew education. Our taxes already pay for the general studies, Jews dominate the neighborhood (are there any “gentiles” on my street? How much cheaper would that be? We could even rent space at the public school so that we don’t need to pay for buildings.
I realize that the more traditional will view this idea as abhorrent and the equivalent of advocating for the old Russian Crown schools, but surely the modern frum community could accept this?
I’m just saying.
Teacher: your idea has been proposed before, but it seems like most parents are completely unwilling to send their kids to public school, period. I am somewhat sympathetic to this view, although I think it is a bit overblown at times.
Unfortunately, the other flaw with that plan is that it’s been done before, and the results were awful. Before day schools were prevalent in the US, that’s exactly what parents did, and it simply didn’t seem to produce tons and tons of observant Jews.
The charter school idea is more interesting, but I don’t think the community would be interested in it as it _should_ be run.
The problem with our tuition system is that there are many getting breaks who if could pay more if motivated to do so. There are households that make not effort to pull extra income (within reason, I’m not asking anyone to work 24/7 but there are reasonable extras such as tutoring for teachers) because the extra would go to tuition. Likewise, I know a family where the wife does not work and all her children are in school. My wife works so that we can pay full tuition and subsidze this family. This creates a burden on other families and should not be accepable.
Thanks for your great post. When do you think the updated spreadsheet will be ready and available for downloading?
We would like to pay full tuitions. However, i don’t work because i must be available to my children with some issues requiring me take them to their appointments to have their issues met, and not to mention with their various schedules from schools. We don’t have family here nor close friends we can depend on. In our naivete, we thought we could have more kids than we have now, with the tuition fees and other fees involved, we have to stop at what we have in order to be able to pay partial tuition along with living expenses, (and one of our toilet are broken for months). That how much it is taking out of our paycheck without our parent’s support who are secular.
My question is,, why are the parents irresponsible having more children knowing tuition costs might be not be in their budget, and we are to pay for their irresponsibility?